Interview of Dr. R. N. Hirst by Detective Jerry Thompson
Sept. 10, 1975
On 9-9-75 this detective, along with Lt. Ron Ballantine from the Bountiful Police Department, made contact with a DR. R.N. HIRST. Contact was made in his office at approximately 10:30 a.m. on this date. The doctor was asked if he was familiar with a THEODORE BUNDY. He stated that he was familiar with him quite a bit, that Bundy was going with his daughter, who is ELIZABETH KLOEPFER, who resides in Seattle. She is the manager of the nursing outfit at the University of Washington. The doctor states that his daughter has been going with this individual for approximately the past four, maybe five years on and off. They were going to get married in 1974 and something happened that stopped that. They were again going to get married in December of 1975, and his daughter states they are not going to get married.
He states he doesn’t know too much about the individual, other than what he has heard from his daughter; he has seen him on several occasions; he has gone fishing with him; he has gone hunting with him; he knows that he goes to the University of Utah in Law School, he came down to Utah in 1974; Bundy told him that he had a (he didn’t know whether it was Masters or B.S.) degree in Psychology from UW. He states the only background he knows about him is that his father and family are in Tacoma; that his father is affiliated with the Army in the line of taking care of meals, he doesn’t know just exactly if he contracts them out or what the story is; he believes him to have three brothers and one sister.
He states the individual has always been very pleasant, very nice to talk to, and he has had no problems with him. He stated that if he was going to give an opinion of the individual, he stated the individual was definitely a schizophrenic. When asked to elaborate on that, he stated that at one time he is very nice, very pleasant, very helpful; then he becomes extremely moody, does not talk, gives you the opinion that he is really thinking or contemplating something. He states he has never known the individual to be violent. He doesn’t believe that he came from a family of much money; he doesn’t believe that he has much money. He states that the individual was involved in the Republican Party in the re-election of Governor Evans in Washington.
He states to his knowledge the only vehicles he has known him to drive are: an older type truck (he states he does not know what it is, he is not even sure of the color); and also a Volkswagen. He states that it is an older Volkswagen, he is not sure of the color- maybe it’s light blue, he just doesn’t know for sure.
After finally breaking the ice with the doctor, he was asked if he knew the subject had ever been talked to by the Sheriff’s Office in Salt Lake or if he had been arrested. He stated he did not. He was informed that he had been arrested here. He asked what for, and he was told by this officer. He was also shown a picture of the items he had in his possession – the handcuffs, ropes, etc. He stated that that brought a point to mind; he stated that his daughter, a year or so ago, called him (she was very upset), and told him that their marriage was off; that Bundy had some very weird hang-ups; and that she was very concerned about him; and that she was going to the Seattle Police Department about him; that she had feelings or thoughts that he may be involved in some of the killings or missings of the girls in the Seattle area. He stated that she confronted him that the Seattle Police Department did not seem impressed, did not seem interested, and that she was wasting their time. She then asked him if he would contact the Sheriff’s Office in Salt Lake about it; that something had to be done. He stated he did not contact anyone. He did not know who to contact. He didn’t know what the Salt Lake Police could do to help out a problem in Seattle. He wasn’t too sure he wanted to get mixed up in it.
He was asked what the weird hang-ups were, what she had to say. He stated that she did not elaborate much on that; she just stated that he had a pair of crutches or some items in her apartment that he had no need, and it was just something that he says, ‘I don’t really know, you would have to talk to her.’ He was asked if he thought that she would talk to us, and he said he was sure she definitely would, she wanted to at one time, but Seattle didn’t appear to be interested in her opinion.
He was asked if he had gone deer hunting with this subject last year, and he stated that he went deer hunting with him on October 20, 1974, which was a Sunday. It was a Sunday morning that he picked him up. They went hunting for the day up in the Blacksmith Fork area above Logan, and came back that evening. He stated that the subject did not have a gun, that he had his and he just went along with him. He stated that he has taken the subject numerous times up to Flaming Gorge, where he has a trailer.
The subject likes to be out in the outdoors. He goes fishing, etc. He claims that his daughter was down here in August of this year and was with the subject at that time, from the 3rd to the 10th of August, he believes.
He believes that his daughter and him (Bundy) had been up in Park City skiing, last year, he is not sure. He was asked if he had ever observed the subject wearing a beard or a mustache. He stated, ‘Yes, I believe he definitely had one, but it’s been some time ago and I really can’t tell you.’
He was asked if his daughter had mentioned any kind of sexual hang-ups or anything else about the subject. He stated no, not to him.
He appeared to this officer to not really want to get involved too much, but did seem concerned and thought that maybe his daughter could help us out a lot better. He was asked what her relationship was with him now. He stated that the marriage was definitely off, that his daughter said he had too many hang-ups. He also stated that his daughter had never told him that he had been arrested in Salt Lake and he did not know this. The doctor was informed that we would be back in contact with him, and my business card was left with him if he had any further questions.
Interview of Mary Lynn Chino by Detective Beal
Sept. 19, 1975
This is an interview of Mary Lynn Chino, Seattle, Washington. Mary was asked how long she had known Ted and she stated she had known him for approximately six years, that she was with Elizabeth Kloepfer when they met Ted at a bar approximately six years ago.
Mary was then asked how well she knew Ted. She stated she knew more about Ted from her conversations with Liz, however, she has from time to time had several in depth conversations with Ted. She did not elaborate as to what they were about.
Mary was then asked how old she would guess Ted was. She stated she did not know his exact age, however, she would guess he was approximately 25 years of age. She then stated she has noticed how he has aged considerably in the last year but, previous to that he looked much younger.
Mary stated that she had never started thinking about Ted in relation to possibly being the one involved in the disappearance of the girls in the Seattle area until Liz approached her. She stated this was in July of 1974. She stated at that time Liz came to her apartment with the composite stating that someone at work had stated, ‘ha, is this your boyfriend?’ She stated at that time they started trying to link things together. At that time the girl who disappeared on July 14th of 1974 had just disappeared from the Lake State Park and the description fit Ted exactly, especially the clothes he was wearing as Ted dressed exactly that way.
Mary stated then in October she came to Utah to visit her parents in Ogden. At that time discovered the disappearance of the girl in Salt Lake, this being Melissa Smith, and upon her return to Seattle she contacted Liz and told her about the girl missing in Salt Lake being very similar to the ones that had turned up missing in the Seattle area. Mary then left and went to Europe and did not return to Seattle until December.
Mary was then asked if she had observed any unusual things or any unusual actions in Ted’s actions. She stated one night she was out late, coming home approximately 2:00 AM and as she entered her house she observed Ted out walking in the yards behind her house. This is in the University District near the area where Ted was living. She stated this occurred in 1972 and she feels he was stealing at this time. Mary was then asked if she recalled a ripped seat in Ted’s car and she stated she did not remember it.
Mary was then asked if Ted had ever made any comments to her regarding missing girls in the Seattle area and she stated he had not.
Mary was asked if Ted had ever made any advances toward her sexually and she stated he had not.
Mary then was asked if she knew when Liz talked with the Police. She stated she did and Liz had talked with her just prior to going to the police and in fact she had kind of encouraged Liz to go.
Mary was then asked if she had any ideas as to what type of hair-dos Ted liked or any particular style or type girl that he liked. She stated he loved long hair and liked to play with Liz’s hair all the time, always running his fingers and hands through it.
Mary was then asked if she knew of any of Ted’s friends. She stated Ted did not have very many friends in Seattle. The people she knew that had met Ted saw through him as a phony.
Mary was then asked if it would be hard for Ted to start a conversation with a stranger such as picking up a girl. She stated it would be very easy for him to do this as he dressed very well, was a good conversationalist and was very good looking and it would be very easy to strike up a conversation with a strange girl and possibly talk her into going with him.
Mary was then asked if Ted had ever said anything to her or around her in regards to evidence or laws of evidence regarding his work or schooling as an attorney. She stated he had not.
Mary then stated Ted calls all the time from Salt Lake and whenever she is at Liz’s apartment and he calls and Liz is not at home he gets quite upset. She also stated that if Ted calls and no one is home at Liz’s apartment he will immediately call her apartment and be very upset because Liz is not at home. She stated he is very jealous of Liz.
Mary was then asked if she knew how Ted was getting his money for his schooling. She stated Ted did not come from a rich family, he did not have very much money. She stated she is sure he steals things to get money, that he lies. She stated she knows he has lied to her and he has also lied to Liz.
Mary then went on to state that one time when they were taking a river trip that he likes to get down the river into the rapids area and go further than he should deliberately to try and scare the girls that are with him as he just loves to see girls scared.
Mary was then asked if she knew if Ted owned a gun. She stated she did not know. Mary also stated that Ted likes the nicer things in life and she feels that this is one reason he hangs around Liz all the time is that she has the nicer things in life that Ted desires.
This completes the interview with Mary Chino.
Interview of Charles and Rose Marie Shearer by Detective Beal
Monday, Sept. 29, 1975
Reporting officer, Lt. Ballantyne and Deputy Jerry Thompson of Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office went to [address redacted] where contact was made with Rose Marie Shearer. After Mrs. Shearer agreed to speak with these officers she was asked how long she had lived there and she advised approximately 3 months. She was then asked if she knew Mr. Bundy. She stated “who?”
It was then asked if she knew Ted Bundy and she stated she knew Ted as he acted as manager of the apartments and he was the one who had showed them their apartment.
She was then asked if she knew if he had moved. She stated he had moved approximately one week ago. She was asked if she observed him moving and she stated no.
It was then inquired if she knew Ted had sold his car and she stated she did not, however, she stated he might have as she has not seen it for awhile.
It was then asked if she was very good friends with Ted. She stated they had talked with him a little bit but did not really associate too much with him.
It was inquired if Rose Marie lived there alone and she stated no she was married and lived with her husband.
This concluded the interview with Mrs. Rose Marie Shearer.
As reporting officer, Lt. Ballantyne, Detective Thompson were leaving the Shearer apartment Mr. Charles Shearer suddenly came out stating that he did not want these officers bothering his wife or his family and as to what Mr. Bundy’s problems were he did not wish to become involved. Mr. Shearer was asked if he would be willing to talk with these officers and he stated he would. Mr. Shearer then indicated that Mr. Bundy had informed him and one of the other neighbors that they were not to drink beer out on the front porch or in any way antagonize or give the police a reason to come to the residence as they had been following him around and was constantly roaming around the apartment.
Mr. Shearer stated that he had been aware that there had been what appeared to be some plain clothes officers sitting out front and also around the apartment building. Mr. Shearer stated that he then went to Mr. Bundy’s apartment and inquired as to why the police were watching him as to whether or not he had done anything or if it might be someone else they might be watching. He stated the Feds were after him due to a tear in the back seat of his car and the tools that the police had found in his car which they claimed were burglar tools and that they were trying to pin some killings of some girls on him due to these things.
Mr. Shearer then stated that he had sold his car approximately two weeks ago for approximately $700 to $750 to a young lady who has a small child, however, he did not know her name. It was inquired as to whether Mr. Shearer was good friends of Ted. He stated he had talked with him several times. He stated in his opinion Ted was two different people. When asked what he meant by this he stated he just acts queer sometimes.
One night he left approximately 1:00 AM and when he returned at approximately 4:00 AM he just burst right in his apartment even though his wife was in bed. When asked why he done this he stated he thought they might be up.
He also stated that Ted would sit and drink beer when them and then suddenly he would for no reason at all would state that he was indulging too much and would have to quit that kind of stuff. He just seemed to have two personalities.
Mr. Shearer also stated that Ted had from time to time indicated that he enjoyed going to one of the local bars called The Sun Bar which is supposed to be known as one of the local queer joints. He stated he would not even go there if he knew there were straight people there. This is all the information that Mr. Shearer could give.
Excerpt from Report by Detective Jerry Thompson
Sept. 30, 1975
This detective, along with the Assistant County Attorney Jerry Kinghorn, went to the University of Utah Law School and made contact with the Assistant Dean, Bruce Zimmer, and several law professors in regards to subject Theodore Bundy. The only pertinant information that came from all of them (these were professors who had the subject in their classes during 1974), was that during the fall of 1974 the individual was not in class very much at all; that he missed several final examinations and had made special appointments and special consideration to take them at a later date after the first of the year. Other than the fact that this was very unusual for an individual to be his first time in law school to be absent and not attend his first quarter, they could not see anything unusual and did not know the individual that well.
We had also received information while at the law school that four students- Bart Farnsworth, Gloria Ann Howard, Janet Benson, and Allen Mathies- were very close to this individual and that some of them had made the statement at one time or another during the fall of 1974 that Mr. Bundy had come into school with scratches on his face and they had made the comment and were teasing him about his love life, if that’s what had happened. We were also informed that they were fairly close friends of Mr. Bundy and that they were all four law students.
Interview of Wendy Bonner by Detective Jerry Thompson
Oct. 10, 1975
Contact was made with WENDY BONNER on this date, 10-7-75, by Detective Couch and myself in downtown Salt Lake. Wendy states that she knew Mr. Bundy to the point that three or four weeks ago she answered an ad in the paper where he was selling a Volkswagen and she was looking for one.
She states she went over to his place with her small five-year-old daughter and confronted him about the Volkswagen. She stated that she had gone into his apartment and used the telephone; in fact she had gone back there two or three times later because she really wanted the car, but she was trying to get money from the bank.
She stated she has even gone with him in his car, where he had taken her to the bank where she tried to get money, but her five-year-old daughter has always been with her.
She stated the only thing she thought was unusual about him was that he was extremely quiet. He never said anything. In fact, she thought it was kind of unusual because most guys will say things like, “What are you doing tonight?” or “How about a date.”
She said there were no advances or comments, or anything made towards her in this line. She did think he was unusual, she can’t describe how or what it was about him, but she tried to start a conversation with him. She stated that he said very, very little.
She stated that he did make the comment that if she needed any work on this car and she did buy it, he had a little German guy that worked on it and that he does real good work. She stated ‘I cannot remember his name. I will try. If I do, I’ll get back to you.’
She stated that she took the Volkswagen down to Jerry’s Volkswagen Shop and had him look at the Volkswagen to see if it was a good Volkswagen, and that maybe this individual could help us about anything Ted said, because Ted was there talking to him also.
She stated that she heard a DAVE ECKERSLEY went to Washington with Ted last spring. Other than that, she states, she doesn’t know anything about it. “I do know Dave, and when I was talking about buying a car, I told Dave I was trying to buy it from this Bundy, and he says ‘well that’s funny, I knew him, I went up to Washington with him.'”
Interview of Janette Benson by Detective Beal
Oct. 10, 1975 at 930 hours
Janette was asked when she first met Ted Bundy. She stated it was in January at the beginning of the second semester. She was asked if she had known or seen him during the first semester. She stated he may have dropped into class a couple of times but she did not actually meet him to where she knew who he was until the second semester.
Reporting officer asked her if she recalled seeing any scratches on Ted’s face and she stated she could not recall seeing any scratches at all. Reporting officer asked if she had done any work projects related to school with Ted and she stated she had been scheduled to do one, however, this did not materialize and therefore she did not do any.
She stated that her association with Ted was strictly social contacts being at various social gatherings which he also attended.
Janette was asked whether or not she felt Ted mingled well with crowds. She stated he mingled very well and was always associating with the people at the gatherings.
Reporting officer asked Janette if she had observed anything unusual about Ted’s actions. She stated she had not. She stated the Ted she knew was a very well mannered, polite fun person to be around. Janette stated there was nothing further she could offer.
This terminated the interview.
Interview of Carol Booth by Detective Jerry Thompson
Oct. 30, 1975
Carol Booth contacted this detective by telephone, stating that she wanted to talk about Mr. Bundy, that she lived across the hall from him when he was living on First Avenue. Contact was made with her at her home on 10-30-75, at which time Carol stated that from April 24, 1975, she lived in the apartment directly across the hall from Mr. Bundy, and that she had a little bit of dealings with him, as the owner told her Mr. Bundy was the manager. She said she got to know him rather well.
She saw nothing unusual about him, he seemed like a very nice and very intelligent individual. She noticed one thing, that he had a phobia for cleanliness, she’s never observed an individual that was as clean as he was with his apartment, etc. She stated that some time while they were over there, a sewing machine that she had (she cannot prove it), but she believes she either loaned it to Mr. Bundy or he came over and got it and she hasn’t been able to find it since. She asked him about it, and he stated ‘I don’t know what you’re talking about.’ She confronted all the other members in the apartment building and none of them claimed to have it. She believes that he did have it and she wondered if we had found it in his apartment when we went through it. She states that it is described as a portable sewing machine with kind of a pink leather case. However, she states that she does not want me to ask him about it, as she is fearful.
She states that on the night of this barbeque and party at her home [where she introduced Leslie Knudson to Ted], Paul Van Dam and his wife, Lynn, were at this party, as she is a very close friend of Paul’s wife. She states that she still talks to Paul Van Dam’s wife continually, as they are very close friends, and she keeps her abreast of what’s going on with Mr. Bundy. I asked her what she meant by that, and she stated “Oh, she just tells me that you keep getting more evidence all the time.”
She stated that she had also called Mr. John O’Connell, Ted’s attorney, because he was a close friend of hers, and asked if there was anything she could do. He informed her no there wasn’t, if there was he would let her know.
She stated one other thing he mentioned about his home life was that he had a sister who had two kids from a black individual and that they never got married, and he was real upset over this. Other than that, she said she could not help me any more.
Interview of James Schuster by Detective Jerry Thompson
November 10, 1975
An interview was conducted on 10-28-75 with Jim Schuster at Bailiff Hall at the University of Utah. Jim is the supervisor or head resident at this hall. Jim states that he employed subject Ted Bundy at Bailiff Hall. He started work on 4-16-75 and as near as he can recall, he worked til 6-1-75. He states the individual worked Friday and Saturday nights only and that his shift work was from midnight til 2:30 in the morning. He stated that he paid him $2.10 an hour and that when Bundy applied for the job he commented to him, ‘What is a nice young eligible bachelor like you going to law school working a schedule like this? I am sure that it puts quite a crimp in your love life.’ He stated that Ted told him, ‘There’s no problem with that, I still want the job.’ He stated the basic job was to run movies, etc., keep the hall open for the students late at night, and just to keep an eye on things.
He states that it was on his own request that Mr. Bundy turn in his resignation or he would fire him. He states that several times he came to work very drunk, that he was late several times, and that one particular weekend he never showed up and he didn’t call and let anyone know this. He stated he did not have any complaints about him as to his work.
He stated that in his opinion, the individual was a very odd person, that he was an individual that thought out every word before he said it to make sure that he was perfect in trying to put over a point. He stated that the individual reminded him of someone that did an awful lot of talking about wanting to change and having different ideas, but in fact he didn’t believe in what he was trying to tell you, but he’d do it to try to convince someone something about himself.
Interview of Charles Shearer by Detective Jerry Thompson
Nov. 26, 1975
On 11-26-75 a Chuck Shearer called County Attorney Dave Yocom and informed him that he had lived across the hall from Mr. Bundy for a few months, then he left town and since has come back and learned that Mr. Bundy has been arrested and that he may have some information about him. It should be noted that an interview was made with both of these individuals some time ago; before Mr. Bundy was ever arrested at the apartment building at 565 First Avenue. Since that time and since Mr. Bundy’s arrest, it appears that Mr. Shearer has decided to come forth with a little bit more information than he originally did before.
Contact was made with Shearer and his wife, Rosemary, at his apartment on 11-26-75. A brief summary is that Mr. Bundy was drinking one night and was fairly well plastered (drunk) with Charles Shearer, and Mr. Bundy made the comment to Mr. Shearer that the police were looking for him (Mr. Bundy) in regards to his car, that it was used in the kidnapping of three girls in the Utah area. In fact, Chuck states that Ted told him that he had abducted the three girls, as near as he can recall. When Chuck asked him, “What did you say?”, he stated that Mr. Bundy did not comment any further and got off the subject and would not answer him. His wife Rosemary also stated that as near as she could tell, that’s exactly what he said.
One other item they particularly mentioned was that he commented that he liked to be around homosexuals; that he went around the Sun Lounge with them, and that he liked to be around them, that they were good people. He would enlighten them much about this, because Chuck said that he had no use for those kind of people, so he told him that he didn’t care to talk to him about it.
One other item he mentioned is that they had a party or a get-together in his apartment one night. Ted just came walking in. A friend of theirs by the name of Barbara Vallejo, about 19 years of age, was lying on the bed. When Ted came in he walked over to her and pinched her between the legs. She then got up and asked him what the hell was going on. She went back to Chuck and told him, ‘you sure have weird friends.’ He states that there was no other pass made by Ted other than that, and he would do numerous things like this, which they thought was very, very strange.
Interview of James Dunn by Detective Jerry Thompson
February 11, 1976
On 2-11-76 this detective, Jerry Thompson; Lt. Ron Ballantine, Bountiful Police Department; and Lt. Bill Baldridge, Pitkin County Sheriff’s Office, Aspen, Colorado; made contact with a JAMES HARVEY DUNN, living at 553 First Avenue.
He is a mathematics major at the University of Utah. Mr. Dunn was confronted at his door by the above officers and asked if we might come in and talk to him. He refused to let us in his apartment, stating that it was messy, nor that he would talk to us.
When I identified him and told him who I was, he stated he wondered why I had not been there sooner. I told him that I understood that he was a close friend of Mr. Ted Bundy, and he stated that was correct.
He stated he has known Mr. Bundy from approximately September or October of 1974, when Mr. Bundy moved in the apartment house next door to him. He stated that he is a good friend of Ted, in fact last Sunday, which would be 2-8-76, Mr. Bundy was over at his apartment and had supper with him and his wife. He stated that he had nothing to hide and that he would try to answer our questions. He did state that Mr. John O’Connell, the defense attorney, had also talked to him numerous times. I asked him if John was going to have him as a witness, and he stated “I don’t know, he hasn’t said anything to me about it. I don’t know what I could testify to, other than that Ted was a very close friend of mine and that from what I know of him, I don’t feel that he is the man capable of doing the things that the press indicate that he is possibly involved in.”
He also stated that the state must not have too good of a case, he started out with a $100,000 bail and it has since been dropped to $15,000 and that would be an indication to him that they had an over-zealous prosecutor and overcharged him. He feels that it may be possible that the girl made a bad identification and wished us luck, stating ‘may the best man win.’
He was asked if he could tell me if Mr. Bundy had been out of town at anytime during the fall of 1974 and also during the winter of 1975. He stated he did not know that. He did know during that time that he was gone a lot, but he states he did not know if he was out of town or not. He was asked specifically if he knows if Ted had ever been in Colorado, and he stated, “I can’t answer that, I don’t really know.”
He was asked if in his opinion there was anything unusual or odd about Mr. Bundy. He stated, “yes, he has an oral-anal fetish.”
In regards to his apartment, he stated that the individual is immaculately clean, that he keeps everything spotless, and he thought that was very unusual.
He was asked what Mr. Bundy had told him after his very first arrest. He stated that he had told him that he had been picked up for burglar tools, but he stated that Mr. Bundy had never told him at that time, he learned later from his attorney, about the pantyhose and the handcuffs, etc. He was asked what his opinion of that was. He stated, “That’s the only thing that troubles me and that does make me wonder and is very suspicious to me why anyone would have pantyhose with the eyes and so forth cut out of them and a pair of handcuffs.” He stated however, “I still don’t feel that he’s involved in what they say he was, he may be involved in some other illegal actions, I can’t say.”
He was then asked to describe Mr. Bundy’s dress, the way he dressed. He stated that Mr. Bundy dressed rather casually, like he was, in a pair of Levis and things like that, and that he did wear sports coats and dress pants when he went out occasionally, but he was a very casual dresser. He was asked about his shoes. He stated that he wore a lot of loafers most of the time, and pointed down to what I was wearing, which was a pair of patent leather loafers; he stated, “He wears a lot like yours, but of course they weren’t patent leather.” I then stated to him, “Mr. O’Connell’s been talking to you, hasn’t he?” He stated, “Yes he has.” I said, “Have you ever seen Ted wearing a pair of patent leather shoes?” He said, “I’ve never seen him wear a pair and to my knowledge I don’t know if he ever owned a pair. He did wear loafers like that but they weren’t patent leather.”
This individual also stated that he recalled Mr. Bundy when he moved down in the light colored Volkswagen and that he did recall the tear that was in the back seat of it, when he came down to Utah, which he assumed was caused from the sun going through the back window. He was asked if he knew why Ted sold his car or what the circumstances were, and he stated, “No, I just assumed that he sold it because he made the statement that he needed money for his attorney and that was the only way that he could get money for his attorney by selling his car and that he was going to move to a closer place to school and that way he could walk to school.”
He was asked if he knew where Mr. Bundy was staying at this time, and he hesitated. He then stated, “Yes I do, however, I don’t think that I should tell you at this time without conversing with Mr. O’Connell or him.”
It appears that the individual has definitely been heavily prompted by either Mr. Bundy or his attorney as to what information to give us. He did not refuse to answer anything other than the whereabouts of Mr. Bundy. But it is the opinion of this officer that the individual could possibly be holding back some information that may be pertinent to us, however it is hard to say.
Interview of James Dunn by Detective Jerry Thompson
March 3, 1976
On Wednesday, 3-3-76, at approximately 3:00 pm, a JAMES HARVEY DUNN was waiting in my office for me. He stated that he wanted to talk to me. Mr. Dunn was one of the individuals who testified on behalf of Mr. Bundy, who lived in the apartment building next door to him and was his closest friend. In fact, Mr. Bundy was best man at Dunn’s wedding [editor’s note: this is incorrect. Bundy was a witness at the Dunn-Davies civil ceremony, not best man].
Mr. Dunn was very antagonistic when I first interviewed him on 2-11-76, and he was also the same way in court. His first comment to me this date was “I want to apologize” or “I’m sorry, I was a little hard on you the first time that I talked to you. I hope you can understand my point of view. I have known Ted since about September of 1974 and he has been my closest and my best friend, I thought. It was very hard for me to believe that he could possibly be responsible for the things that he’s convicted of. Now that he’s convicted, I don’t know which way to go and which way to think. I would like to ask you personally, do you truly believe without a shadow of a doubt that Ted was guilty.” I told him that was a hell of a question to ask me, did he think that I always investigated and signed complaints on individuals that were not guilty? He stated, “I did not meant it that way, I’m sorry.” I told him there was no doubt in my mind that Ted was definitely guilty of this case.
He asked me, he had started to think now of the missing girls around the same time this happened, etc.; he wanted to know if I thought Ted was involved with them. I told him I could not answer that question.
He asked me if I was still investigating Ted, and I told him yes, he was still under investigation. He stated, “You know, it’s hard to believe. The guy was over to my apartment almost continually, would have dinner, was with me and my wife lots of times, and he just never appeared to be anything like this. However, I will have to admit and say that I thought he was unusual to the effect that as a law student Ted never studied. I don’t recall him ever cracking a book. He was home during the day a lot. He was out at night a lot.”
He stated that he went away on a couple of vacations during 1975 to Seattle and that he went over and took care of Ted’s plants that he had in his apartment and took care of things for him, but there were several times during the early part of 1975, which he states, “I cannot remember exactly, but Ted would leave for two or three days at a time and would never say anything to me.”
He stated, “I thought it was unusual because I would usually take care of his plants, pick up his mail, etc., but he would not tell me on these particular days. When he’d come back I would ask him why he didn’t let me know he was going, I would have watered his plants and taken care of things. I can’t remember his comment. It was something like ‘well I didn’t know I was going’ or something. Dunn stated he did not know where Ted went, Ted never did tell him and he doesn’t know if he ever really asked Ted where he had been.
He was curious to know what had gone on in the trial, as he wasn’t allowed to be in there. I informed him I wasn’t in the trial either. He wanted to know if he could read the transcript of the trial. I told him that the County Clerk’s office would have it, and when it was transcribed it was a public record, to my knowledge; and that if he went down there he could possibly read it.
He stated he didn’t know which way to turn now, that if there was anything that he could help the police with he would be more than willing to do so. He asked if I would come out and talk to him and his wife some night when I had time, as they wanted to talk to me.
There may be something that he could do that would help this officer. And maybe I could help him more in his mind as he is thoroughly confused now, that he is not too sure that he really knew Ted. He stated, “I thought I knew him very well. We never went out to parties or anything like that, but I was in his apartment and he was in mine and I truly thought he was a fine young man. But some of the things I think of now were a little bit strange.”
I informed him I would be more than happy to talk to him at a later date, that I would make an appointment with him to talk to him and his wife.
Interview with: Margith Maughan
Ms. Maughan was interviewed at her attorney’s office on 9 March 1976.
Ms. Maughan stated that she first met Theodore Bundy in September (later part) of 1974 in Salt Lake City, Utah, at 565 1st Avenue, Salt Lake, in an apartment house. Ms. Maughan further stated that she rented unit #1 and Ted (Theodore Bundy) possibly lived in #2 upstairs, as Bundy was also the manager at that time. Ms. Maughan recalled that Bundy had moved there (565 1st Ave) shortly before she had.
Ms. Maughan stated that Bundy was attending the University of Utah law school, day sessions at this time. Ms. Maughan stated that when she met Bundy, he was driving a tan Volkswagen with Washington plates. Ms. Maughan stated that after February of 1975, Mr. Bundy’s vehicle had different Utah plates.
Ms. Maughan stated that after the 1st of October, 1974, she became socially acquainted with Ted Bundy. She described him as a very friendly person and a good conversationalist.
Ms. Maughan stated that she could recall Bundy being depressed on only one occasion and that was during the fall of 1974 when he mentioned he was 28 years old and still going to school. The comment was not violent at all.
Ms. Maughan stated that in March of 1975, she recalled seeing Bundy drive up in front of the apartment house. Bundy’s chest and shoulders were heaving as if upset. Bundy went upstairs without any explanation as to circumstances.
Ms . Maughan stated that religion was a topic of conversation as well as other subjects, as politics and psychscology. Ms. Maughan stated that the she never saw Bundy study or read; although he had a good selection of books of good reading, quality, none appeared to be the trash variety. But did recall that he did have the “Joy of Sex”. Bundy had asked Maughan if she had ever seen it and gave it to her to look at. She returned it after a quick viewing as she didn’t like it.
Ms. Maughn stated that Bundy was very immaculate, and that she felt uncomfortable to be in his (Bundy’s) apartment.
Ms. Maughan stated that friends or callers were not frequent and there was no particular type of person coming or going from Bundy’s apartment.
Ms. Maughan stated that Bundy never mentioned being in the State of Colorado or desiring to go there. Nor did she have first hand knowledge of his going there.
Ms. Maughan stated that Ted had told her he didn’t have money to ski, but he did like to ski.
Ms. Maughan stated that during a conversation with Ted Bundy after a Sunday church service, she and Bundy were into a discussion and Ted Bundy told her “there was no difference between right and wrong” in a religious sense. This conversation took place in Feb. or March of 1975.
Ms. Maughan stated that she knew Bundy to go to a bar that was considered gay (“The Sun”) as Ted had a live and let live attitude toward homosexuality.
Ms. Maughan stated that a Scott Nelson lived upstairs on the same floor as Ted Bundy. Ms. Maughan described Scott Nelson as a: white, male, effeminate. 25-26 yrs. 5’9″- 5’11.” Brown hair, parted in the middle over the collar length. 160 lbs (approx.). Clean shaven, no accent, glasses, possible present address Toronto, Canada. Ms. Maughan stated that Scott and Bundy became close friends but she could not recall any trips that Bundy took with Scott.
Ms. Maughan stated that she recalled Bundy taking trips that would cover Friday, Saturday, Sunday – frequently. Ms. Maughan recalled that she remembered this because Bundy kept the vacuum cleaner in his apt. She cleaned on weekends and he generally wasn’t there.
Ms. Maughan stated that when she first met Ted Bundy in 1974, he had his hair pulled back in a (or similar to) pompadour, however she does not recall him ever wearing his hair in that fashion again. She did recall he had changed his hair on different occasions. Ms. Maughan stated that in January 1975, Bundy’s hair was worn short on the sides and he was clean shaven.
Ms. Maughan stated that she knew Ted Bundy to own a light colored over coat but had no knowledge of a dark colored over coat.
Ms. Maughan stated that Ted Bundy spoke little of his family but he alleged to get along well with his mother, but didn’t appear to care about knowing his father.
Ms. Maughan stated that she has personally seen Ted Bundy remove the right front seat from his tan V.W. around March of 1975 or April 1975. Ted was being helped by Scott and at this time they were doing many things together.
Ms. Maughan stated that she recalled a statement by Ted Bundy: “I like virgins, I can have then any time I want.” Maughan recalled that this was his (Bundy’s) only mention of other woman as he never mentioned any particular type of women.
Ms. Maughan stated that she recalled during the fall of 1974 she had arrived home late and began cleaning her apartment when Ted Bundy came in carrying a satchel simulated alligator skin leather, a deep reddish brown. Maughan further recalls that the satchel appeared heavy. She could not recall if she attempted to lift the satchel herself or in the way it was put down by Bundy.
Ms. Maughan stated that sometime in the fall of 1974, near Thanksgiving, Ted Bundy had been away. She believed deer hunting with his girl friend’s father. Maughan states that Bundy arrived back at the apartments around 5:00 a..m. and as she watched him through the window, Bundy went into the trunk area of the V. W. and appeared to be uptight.
Ms. Maughan stated that Bundy stayed at the apartments until approx. the last weekend of September 1975 when he left to move closer to school.
Ms. Maughan stated that she could recall Bundy washing his car in Sept. of 1975 and at that particular time a new seat or cover had been put in his car.
Ms. Maughan also recalled that Ted Bundy bought Olympic beer and Schlitz; drank Johnny Walker scotch; was never present if any drugs were used by Bundy.
Ms. Maughan stated that Bundy once told her of catching a pick pocket in Seattle, Washington.
Ms. Maughan stated that Bundy had also told her that a few years ago (73-74) while he was drinking heavily and he had walked into a store and stolen a portable T.V. set and got away with the crime.
Report by Detective Jerry Thompson
March 21, 1977
On 3-21-77, Mike Fisher from Aspen, Colorado and a Milton K. Blakely, who is a Chief Deputy out of the District Attorney’s Office in Colorado Springs, Colorado held a conference Monday, Tuesday, and half of Wednesday. Numerous other officers and people were contacted during this time, as they are preparing for their case on Ted Bundy, which goes to court April 4, 1977.
They made contact with several of the witnesses in the Salt Lake area in regards to their case. They were unable to make contact with Rose Mary Shearer, who had been used as a witness in the Carol DaRonch case. They asked this detective if I would make contact with her.
Contact was made at her apartment, which is the Stratford Hotel in Salt Lake City. She’s living there with her younger sister and her mother.
They requested that I show her some pictures of some coats out of a magazine that they had left me, to see if she could identify any one of them or any resemblance to them that Mr. Bundy had worn during the time that she lived across the hall from him. She stated, “It’s been so long ago I just can’t tell you. I do believe, in fact I am sure, that he had several jackets like windbreakers, of the slick finish, nylon type.” She said, “I believe they were dark blue, but they could have been a different color. They zip up in front.” And she was not sure if they looked like the ones in the photos, or not. She says “They could have been,” but it’s been too long for her to tell.
Interview of Scott Nelson by Detective Jerry Thompson
Thursday January 12, 1978
A SCOTT NELSON, a former associate of Bundy’s, who was living in the Canada area, where Bundy has made a call to him, was attempted to be located in Canada. It was found that the individual had moved from there to the Salt Lake area and was living with his mother. I attempted to make contact with the individual several times at his home, and was unable to.I then obtained a subpoena for this individual from Dave Yocom, at the County Attorneys Office, requesting the interview to be held Friday the 13th at 2pm. I finally made contact by telephone with Scott’s mother, informed her who I was, and asked her if she would please have him call me. She seemed to be very upset but stated that she would get the message to him. This was on Thursday, January 12. Later on in the afternoon, the individual called my secretary and informed her that he was not going to talk to me, and that if I wanted any information to contact Mike Fisher in Colorado, as he had talked to him before and was tired of being harassed. I immediately called him back and after some persuading on the phone, he reluctantly agreed to come in at 2:30 p.m., this date and talk to myself and Captain Hayward.
The individual came into the office that afternoon, after a short while with him he seemed to settle down and was not so upset as he was at first. He did not want me to tape his conversation however. He basically went over when he met Bundy, which was in October of ’74, when Bundy moved into the apartment with him at 565 1st Avenue. He knew him from then until March, the last part of March until he moved out.
He stated that they had gone drinking a couple of times, had double dated once or twice. Other than that he did not know the individual too awfully well, as he was studying at the U and assumed Ted was also. He stated that he was very shocked to find out that Ted had missed almost the entire fall quarter, because he always left every morning and he assumed that he was going to college.
Scott also stated that he himself left on weekends a lot, and does not know if Bundy was home, if he traveled or what he’d done. If he did travel, he states that the individual never confided in him. He stated that the only vehicles he knew Ted to have was a light brown or tan VW Bug, and that he had an older model pickup truck that ran off and on.
He stated that he had never observed any scratches or marks or anything on Ted’s face at any time. Ted was a neat dresser and kept himself rather neat all the time. He stated that they did go with Margaret Maughn who lived in the apartment at one time down to the Sun Lounge, that he was not aware of Ted having any girls up to his apartments, other than maybe for an hour or two to eat during the evening, and that he assumed that he was probably his closest friend, and yet he also states he was not that close.
He stated that when he came back to Salt Lake after he had moved, he was shocked to find out that Ted had been arrested, that it didn’t seem possible to him, and that it was during the December months, just after Ted had bailed out of jail, that he ran into him downtown Salt Lake where he was window shopping. He asked Ted a little about it, and Ted told him that he was not allowed to discuss the matter on orders of his attorneys, so he stated he did not go into the matter.
He states he never heard or saw him since, but while Ted was in jail, he called his mother and wanted Scott’s phone number, and that Ted did call him in Canada to talk to him. He stated that he basically wanted to talk about the Laura Ann Aime case in Utah County, stating that the police were trying to involve him in that and also Scott and he just wanted him to be aware of it. Scott denies ever being down in Utah County, Lehi, or in a cafe with Ted Bundy, where he was supposedly seen by some witnesses in Utah County. He states that he told the Utah County Authorities and also Colorado authorities that, and he’s still sticking with that story that he never went down there with Ted, doesn’t even know where the place is.
He was asked if he observed anything wrong with the seat in Ted’s VW, he stated ‘I don’t know if it’s from people asking me, but it seems to me that something was wrong with the passenger seat, that it was broken or something, but I can’t put my finger on it.’
He was asked if he had ever observed Ted with a pair of handcuffs, he stated ‘yes I believe he did have a pair, but I just cannot remember for sure, where and how I seen them. I believe at one time he was playing around with them, and it seems to me that he put them on Margaret Maughan and hooked them onto the door, but I may be wrong there.’
He was asked if he was aware of a meat block in Ted’s apartment, he stated that yes, Ted had got that after he had moved there from a want ad in the Salt Lake Tribune, and just more or less had it for a conversation piece.
He was asked if he knew anything about Ted’s background, if he ever talked about it. He stated very little, but he did observe from being around him, that Ted did not like blacks or Orientals, for some reason. Other than that he never talked too much about his home life. He was asked if he ever mentioned Liz Kloepfer; Scott stated no. He was asked if Ted ever mentioned a girlfriend in Seattle, he stated no, he didn’t know that he had one.
The individual seemed to be cooperative; he assured the Captain and myself that if he heard from Ted or had any information, that he did not want to get involved in it, he did not want to get his life ruined in publicity in regards to the matter, and that he would certainly give us a call. He stated ‘this has got to end somewhere, and I don’t want to get involved, and my life ruined for Ted, as I only knew him for six months, I lived in the same apartment building, and I’m sorry I ever met him.’