Elizabeth Kloepfer had been Ted Bundy’s girlfriend for nearly six years by the time he was arrested in Salt Lake City. After he became a suspect in the DaRonch kidnapping and Kent disappearance, police became especially interested in talking to her. Liz had struggled with her suspicions about Ted since the double murders at Lake Sammamish in Seattle nearly a year earlier. Here a distraught Liz dicusses Ted’s strange behaviors, personality, and background, as well as intimate details of their sex life and relationship.
Report by Detective Kathy McChesney
0930 hrs: Responding officer received a phone call from Liz Kloepfer who advised that she is a girlfriend of TED BUNDY. She stated that the landlady, MRS. ROGERS, had told her that she had been questioned regarding Ted. Kloepfer made an appointment to come to this office and speak with R/O.
1015 hrs: R/O had personal contact with Liz Kloepfer in this office. She had quite a bit of information regarding Ted Bundy. She stated that they met in September of 1969 at the Sand Piper Tavern in the U District which is now the Rainbow Tavern.
Liz stated that she and Ted broke up one time in 1972 when he was dating a girl he worked with at the Mental Health enter at Harborview. They were broke up for a couple of weeks.
He graduated in the University of Washington in 1972 and applied to several law schools. He also worked at Seattle Crime Commission for the Washington State Republican Party in Olympia to which he commuted. He bought the Volkswagen after they began going together. He also worked for a medical supply firm called Pedline. She observed some plaster of paris in his room that she believes he took from the medical supply firm. She states that this was in approximately 1970. She describes Ted as being very athletic and remembered that during the first week of July in 1974 he went to a water skiing party at Lake Sammamish at which he did not have a very good time. She did not go with him to that party. He also had a job in 1974 with the Department of Emergency Services in Olympia.
She recalls that on July 14, 1974, in the morning Ted appeared at her residence as she was getting ready to go to church. Ted was wearing a white T-shirt and yellow shorts. They had some sort of fight that morning and Ted went home. Liz went to church and later took her daughter to the lake. She returned home around 6:00 p.m. in the evening. When Ted returned he was wearing a gray turtle neck and long pants.
She states that at this time Ted complained about not feeling well; that prior to their going out for dinner and despite him not feeling well, he removed a ski rack which he had placed on the back of his car back on her car as it was her ski rack. During the first week of July Ted had removed the ski rack from car so they could carry his bicycle to Eastern Washington on a trip that they took.
The last time Ted was in King County was in June of 1975, when he came for a 4 – 5 day visit. Currently he is working as a security guard at the University of Utah campus.
In regard to their relationship she advised that she and Ted were not together every night and it would not be unusual for him to be away from her for several days at a time. Since September of 1974 Liz has seen Ted during Christmas of ’74 ; during the first week of June when Ted was here and during the first week of August when she visited him in Utah. She received a phone call from Ted from a pay phone the night or near the night that the girl from Bountiful, Utah, was missing, or found. She recalls this from reading Ogden, Utah [newspapers] where Liz is from.
Ted has a brother RICHARD who is 13 and lives in the home; a brother GLEN, 20 years, who lives in San Diego and is in the U.S. Navy; a sister SANDY, 18, who lives in Tacoma; a sister LINDA, 22 who lives in Tacoma.
Some time ago Ted learned from his cousin JOHN who is 26 and lives in Tacoma, that Mr. Bundy was not his real father, that he was an illegitimate child. Ted had some resentment towards his mother due to the fact that he did not learn this fact and there has been no communication between them regarding the circumstances of his birth. Liz indicated that Ted had credit cards at Standard Oil and Nordstrom Best. She said that on one occasion he borrowed her car to go to Richland which she believes was in the summer of 1970.
According to Liz Ted has not been in the Armed Services and did apply to ten different law schools. During the past month Ted’s brother Richard visited him in Salt Lake. Ted crated a bicycle and packed it back with Richard on the airplane. When Liz questioned Ted about this he asked her what bike she was referring to, Liz has not seen the bicycle.
This interview ended at 1130 hrs.
Report by Detective Kathy McChesney
R/O had personal contact with Liz Kloepfer in this office.
Liz observed a hatchet under the seat of Ted’s Volkswagen sometime during the summer of 1974. The hatchet had a pinkish leather cover. Ted had obtained his Volkswagen while working for the Seattle Crime Commission. Before obtaining his car he drove Liz’s car or rode his bicycle. Liz remembers the date she saw the hatchet as she had been to Green Lake with Ted that day and had seen it under the driver’s seat. At this time Liz had been thinking that Ted Bundy might be a good suspect in this case, and the hatchet bothered her however, he gave a good explanation for it. She does not remember the explanation at this time. Liz remembers this date as this was right after she had returned from Utah in August of 1974.
Ted remarked that he was going to get a rifle possibly, this was the day after she returned from Utah. Liz also observed a cleaver in Sept. of 1974 while observing Ted pack to go to Utah, one side had a blade and the other side had bumps as though it were a meat tenderizer item. Liz also observed a knife in Ted’s possession. Liz describes the knife owned by Ted as being brass in a wood carved case; it had a 4″ blade and was brown in color. This knife was seen in the glovebox of Liz’s car in March of 1973 . He stated it was given to him by SHEILA and MARLIN VORTMAN. This knife was in glove compartment of her Volkswagen until August of ’73, when car was stolen. At the time it was recovered Ted appeared and having some outstanding traffic warrants he was taken to Seattle P.D. Ted also attended a traffic school in 1969. Ted met Sheila and Marlin through work in Governor Evans’ campaign. In Ted’ s trunk he kept a tool box and two pairs of mechanic’s overalls.
In the Fall of 1973 Liz observed a sack of clothing in Ted’s room one night while he was at law school. The only piece of clothing she actually observed was a white bra which was a very large size. Liz assumed these to be FREIDA ROGER’S clothes and did not look at them any further. Frieda cleaned Ted’s room every Friday and Ted’s door was generally unlocked.
During 1972 Liz observed a television and stereo in Ted’s room. Ted admitted to her later that he had stolen these things but that he would not do something like that again. Liz also observed an electric typewriter in Ted’ s room which she stated he had bought from the Republican Headquarters. Ted is described by Liz as materialistic- he enjoyed listening to music and still has the stereo and TV.
In May or June of 1974, Liz observed crutches in Ted’s room. Ted stated they belonged to ERNST ROGERS, his landlord who had a problem with his feet. Ted was going to return them for Ernst or Ernst gave them to him, Liz could not remember. Liz also observed an Ace bandage that Ted had obtained when Ted broke his foot while going to Temple University.
Ted had a friend named Tom Sampson who attended Evergreen State but did not live on campus. This was during 1973-74. He lived on a lake close to the campus and Ted would visit him on week nights. Liz never met Tom but Tom was employed with Ted at the Seattle Crime Commission.
Ted had a friend named Terry Storwick from Ellensburg who attended Central in ’72. On one occasion Ted drove to Richland and drove Liz’s car and stopped and stayed with Terry. Terry attended Wilson High School and lived in Tacoma.
He has since graduated but was living in student housing with his wife in Ellensburg while attending Central. Liz knew of no contacts that Ted had at Oregon State Univ. although she believes they went through Corvallis on one occasion when they were returning from Utah and looked around the campus. Ted has never done any caretaking for any party.
On New Year’s of 1974 Ted attended a New Year’s party at Crystal Mountain at the cabin of a law school friend. He stayed overnight at that time.
Ted owns a 35mm camera but does not develop his own film. She saw film canister with black tape around it on one occasion in his room but did not open it. Ted does not have linens in his car and the linens in his room belong to Frieda Rogers. He currently owes Mrs. Rogers $500.
Liz stated that she had never observed any pornography in Ted’s room; that birthdays with his family were not particularly special occasions; she could not pinpoint any dates for that reason. Ted took naps during the day and stayed up late at night. He would often sleep in. He once rented a sail boat but he doesn’t own one or have friends that do.
Often when out driving, Ted would look for roads away from the main roads. Liz never noticed any bug bites or scratches on Ted’s legs – he wore shorts often, had a couple pairs of white shorts.
He played tennis a lot at the IMA courts with whomever might be there.
She believe he was in Provo, Utah in the Autumn of 74. He also was in Vail prior to their meeting. She believes this was while he was attending Temple University. He hurt his ankle on one occasion on Liz’s front porch – has weak ankles – he saw a doctor regarding that but she does not remember.
Ted’s car is light brown with light brown interior; the seats come out for cleaning purposes. He keeps his car very clean according to Liz. About two or three years ago Ted gave a turquoise ring but other than that there has been no jewelry as gifts.
Ted wen to taverns a couple times a month with [his neighbor] John Neeler and sometimes with Liz. He did not go to taverns alone very often. He went to O’Banion’s and Dante’s.
He drinks beer and scotch and would go with John to the Pipe Line Tavern to pick up girls.
Ted owns a back-pack which is nylon, it has two pockets in the front. According to Liz he has had this pack since 1969, it is what is known as a day pack. Liz does not recognize the description of any suitcases or packs taken from any of the victims in this case, or from KAREN SPARKS.
Liz recalls that on Nov. 8, 1974, Ted had called her at approximately 11:00 p.m. in the evening; there was a lot of noise in the background and he stated he had just been to a movie. She remembered that this coincided with the disappearance of a girl in Utah and she recalled this after reading about the girl in the newspaper at the public library.
On Oct. 18, 1974, during the evening, Ted called three times – he was very excited because he was going deer hunting with her father the following day – she remembers his calling her early in the evening at her home; she believes he was at his residence when he called her but she is not sure.
Report by Detective Kathy McChesney
R/O had phone contact with Liz Kloepfer who stated that TED called her and told her he was driving to Washington to sell his car as he owes Mrs. Rogers $500 and feels he can get a better deal on his car up here. Liz does not want him to come, is frightened, and was going to call him and tell him not to come.
She said she was going to advise him that she was not going to marry him. She stated that he left Labor Day, 1974 for Utah and returned Sept. 13th which was a Friday, and returned back to Utah Sept. 17th, a Tuesday morning, with his brother in his pick-up. He had driven his car down initially.
Report by Detective Kathy McChesney
R/O had phone contact with Liz Kloepfer who indicated that she told Ted that she had knowledge that he had been arrested in Utah. He told her that he had been arrested for speeding in regard to evading the police–he would not pull over, therefore they charged him with that. She stated that she knew he had been arrested for possession of burglary tools and he advised that the police had made an illegal search of his car; that he intended to win this case in court; and that the police had no business telling her that he had been arrested. She told him that Frieda Rogers had told her that the police had been around, that she had contacted the police wanting to know what Ted had been involved in.
Ted stated he was fed up with Salt Lake P.D. and intended to visit them this day and give them a piece of his mind. Liz also indicated that she had held back advising us that she has known for some time that Ted has had a stealing problem, that a bicycle he once owned she knew to be stolen.
Liz told Ted that she did not intend to marry him and did not want him coming to Washington. Ted advised her that the ski mask in his car was something left over from skiing. Liz was advised to call 911 if Ted should appear at her home and make any threats upon her or her daughter.
Interview with Elizabeth Kloepfer by Detective Jerry Thompson
The above subject was interviewed by this officer, however, she refused to be interviewed or talked to or answer any questions as long as the tape recorder was on. So, therefore, notes were taken and the interview I will be put on this tape according to my notes and what I can remember.
The only one present during this interview was myself, and the subject. After explaining the situation to the subject, that I would like to use a tape recorder, that I was a bad writer, and that I needed it to keep notes, she immediately wanted to know who would hear it, who would have access to it. I informed her that it would be strictly confidential between myself and my captain. She stated no way, that she would be more than happy to talk and cooperate, but she did not want it on a tape. She was fearful that her boyfriend may hear it.
She was asked how long she had known Ted Bundy. She stated that she has known him for approximately 6 years and has gone with him off and on in that period of time. She stated that she met him in a local bar in the Seattle area. They were very serious at several times and were going to get married a couple of times, but there is definitely not going to be a marriage now.
She was asked if she was not the person who came forward last year to contact the Seattle Police in regards to Ted. She stated that she was. She was asked if she would explain that situation and why she went to them and what made her suspicions grow. She stated she was first aware of it when a composite drawing was shown in the newspapers and on the TV in the Seattle area, and that her and a girlfriend commented one day, “You know who that looks like. Somebody that me and you know.” She said, “Yes I know, very much.”
She said then she started looking back, and that according to the papers’ call of when the girls in the Seattle area were missing, she noticed that he was never with her on those particular nights, that he was somewhere else unknown. She stated that then he moved to the Salt Lake area and was going to go to Law School in September of 1974; and that a girlfriend of hers went to the Salt Lake area, and while down here in the Fall, she read the newspaper accounts of one of the missing girls. When she went back to Seattle, she told her, “That is exactly the same as the girls are in Salt Lake and Ted is down there in Salt Lake now.” She said that she started to think more and more strongly about him.
She stated it was at that time that she had gotten a hold of her father in Salt Lake, who is Russell Hirst, and was very concerned, as she found numerous things also in his apartment, like a pair of crutches, a meat cleaver, a large Oriental type knife in a wooden holster type case which was in the glovebox of her car, and he borrowed it quite often. She stated that she was upset with the Seattle Sheriff’s Office, and the main reason she was is that she didn’t think that they got a hold of the Salt Lake office, that she had asked them numerous times to get a hold of us and talk to us about Bundy in Salt Lake because of her suspicions; and she did not think they did because she never heard anything from them, and that is why she asked her father to get a hold of us.
She was very optimistic again as to who was going to hear this interview and if I would let him know. She was informed that I would not tell him. I asked her if she would tell him that I was talking to her, because I know she is still communicating heavily with him. She stated, “I really don’t think I will. I don’t know what to do. I keep praying about it and I keep praying that you’ll find out, and I guess I keep hoping that you’ll find out that it’s not Ted, that it’s someone else. But deep down I’m just not sure.”
She was asked if she could give me the individual’s hang-ups, or what her suspicions were, or what she really suspected him of. Going back to again to the composite, etc., her finding the meat cleaver and the knife, a pair of crutches, and a roll of plaster of Paris in the drawer after snooping around. When she confronted him with it, he stated, “Oh, I stole that from the medical supply place,” at the University where he was working. She asked him why, and he stated, “I don’t know, I guess just for the hell of it.”
She confronted him about the crutches, and he stated that he used them for his landlord. She claims that one day she also observed in his apartment in the Fall (she is not sure if this is the Fall of ’73 or the early part of the year) a paper sack in his apartment; and the only thing she noticed is that it was full and the top item was a woman’s bra. She believes that the rest of the items were women’s clothing, but stated she did not look any further. She never mentioned it to him because she was fearful and also a little bit embarrassed to ask him what was in there or why he had women’s clothing.
She was asked if she could tell me anything unusual about this individual, about his reactions in the last year that were different from the year before. She stated, “Very much so.”
She stated that during the summer of 1974, just before he was moving to the Salt Lake area, his sex drive became very, very nil, or very small, which was very unusual for him. She stated she immediately confronted him about having other girlfriends, to which he stated that wasn’t true, that he was just working hard and his frustrations were up too high and that was the thing. She stated that just before he went to Salt Lake she even wanted to throw a kind of going away party for him, and that even refused to have sex on this deal, which was very unusual for him. She was asked if she could enlighten me on anything about his sexual behavior, if it was any different or unusual in her opinion. She stated no, other than the fact that it was late in ’73 or early in ’74 when he got a book called the Joys Of Sex.
In this book he found and read items about anal sex. She stated that she did not relish this idea but she went along with him. She stated he also found some items in the book about girls being tied up and bound. She stated that she let him take her nylon stockings, spread eagle her on the bed and tie her legs and spread eagle her arms out and have intercourse that way, only twice, and she did not like it, it was very distasteful, and she wouldn’t do it with him again.
She stated he did not make too much comment about this but he appeared that he didn’t like the idea. She was asked if he liked her hair the way it was now and if he ever commented on or looked at other girls who had hair like hers. She stated yes, that he liked her hair long the way that it was and if she mentioned she was going to cut it, he got very upset and told her no, that he liked her hair, he liked long hair very much. To her knowledge, the only other person he ever went out with was another girl, who she does not know, who had hair similar to hers.
She was asked what kind of cars he had during the time she has known him. She states, “the only two vehicles I know that he’s ever had or driven are the light brown or beige Volkswagen that he has now and the old white truck he bought just before he went to Salt Lake.” She states that he has driven her Volkswagen, which is light green in color. She was asked if she knew if he had a tear in the seat of his Volkswagen. She stated, “Yes, he had one along the back across the top, like mine,” and they assumed that had happened from the sun coming in the back window. She was asked if she knew that he had changed that and got it fixed and changed his car. She stated, “No, I didn’t know anything about that.”
She was asked if she thought that he told her everything, if he told her the truth, and she stated, “No, I’ve caught him in several lies.” He denied being arrested by the Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office, and when she confronted him with him it, he told her it was a traffic violation, to which she told him he was lying, that he had some items in his car that she had heard about, he stated to her, “Yeah, they didn’t mean too much. I had a ski mask in there that I used last year when it was cold for skiing, and a couple of other things they were trying to make a big deal out of.” He stated that he had nothing to worry about, that it was an illegal search and there was nothing to it.
She was asked if she ever knew him to have gone out and robbed anything or stolen anything. She stated yes, that the past while he had been real hard up for money and he had been stealing things lately. She stated that she knows that he stole a television and a few things in the Seattle area. She stated that at one time, and this is the only time that she can remember, he told her that if she ever told anybody about it or anything else, he told her, “I’ll break your fucking neck.” She stated that’s the only time. She said, “I know he stole a bicycle somewhere too and gave it to someone up here in the Seattle area. She stated she had confronted him about these things and he stated, “No, I didn’t steal the bike.” He stated that the TV was the only thing he had stolen.
She stated that she has communicated with him quite a bit, that he called her again last night and that he was completely different again, he was all lovey-dovey, telling her how much he missed her and he wanted her to marry him and all these kind of things. She stated he also wanted her to get him $700.00, which he claimed he needed for his attorney in Salt Lake.
She stated that he is hurting for money, as far as she knows financially. She was asked about how he got money and what his family was. She stated that his mother works at the University of Puget Sound as a secretary and does not make too much money and that his father is a cook at the Army camp, she believes in Fort Lewis, that they have a total of two girls and three boys in the family and Ted is the oldest. She says the father is probably one of these guys that’s really not too sharp, doesn’t make very much money, and he and Ted don’t get along too well. She states in fact it is not his real father, that Ted was an illegitimate child, but his mother has never told him that and he found out from a cousin of his when he was around 18 or 19 years of age, she believes. But he has never told his mother that he found out. She says this has bothered him and really upset him an awful lot.
She was confronted again by this officer numerous times during the interview, asking her that she really wasn’t sure was she, that she had a doubt in her mind that he may be involved in some of these killings, and she stated to this officer, “Yes, I keep praying all the time and hoping that you will find somebody and that it won’t be him. But I can’t get him out of my mind, and I guess I’ll always have that doubt. The more I hear about him, the more it sounds like to me that he could be involved.” She stated, ”I heard from the Seattle Police from Kathy that he went to Colorado and that he denied telling you he has ever been to Colorado.” She stated, “Was he over there? Can you put him there at the time of some of these girls’ deaths?” I told her that that I couldn’t tell her, I didn’t know. She begged me, stating, “I’ve got to know. Because if he was over there at those times, then I would be sure.”
She was also shown a picture of a female by the name of Marguerite Maughan, a drivers license photo, and was asked if she had ever seen this girl.
She stated, “No, who’s that?” I would not give her the name, I told her that it was a friend of his. She made the comment, “Well that even puts more icing on the cake.” She said, “What do you mean by a friend?” I told her, “Well, she’s a, you know what a friend is.” She said, “You don’t have to say any more.”
She stated the thing that got her, and she didn’t know, is when he called her the other night he said that the police knew that he was coming to Seattle to sell his car. I asked her who had told him, and she said, “I don’t have any idea. I don’t know how he could know, and I don’t know myself, because that information was relayed to us by Kathy from the Seattle Police Department to us, and we have not confronted this man whatsoever from that time on, so I don’t see any way that he could come up with this, this is a story.”
She also stated, going back to the deer hunting trip with her father, she wasn’t positive on the dates, but from talking to her father, it was a Sunday when he deer hunting on the 20th. She stated that he is an outdoorsman, he likes to be outdoors quite a bit. He is no fisherman or hunter or anything like that but he does stay in the outdoors quite a bit. She was asked if he was a skier. She stated he has skied a little bit, that she’s been to Park City skiing with him, that she’s been to Snowbird and places like this with him.
She stated that her dad calls him a schizophrenic, which she asked for an explanation of that, which I told her. She stated, “The more I think of it now he’s right, he is two kinds of people. I couldn’t see it before, but he has been using me, and my dad’s told me this but I never believed him. But I can see that he is now, he wants $700.00 for his attorney and he needs $500.00 for school. She stated that he tried to butter her up the other night wanting some of this money.
She was asked out of the clear blue sky if she had ever seen him wear a mustache or a beard. She stated, “Not a mustache alone but a full beard and mustache. He had a fake one or an imitation mustache that he had in his desk drawer and he carried it with him usually most of the time.” I asked her to describe it, and she stated, “It was nothing fancy, just more or less like a bush one.” She described it as just a regular one growing down towards the lip, not curling or anything like this. She was asked when he wore it and why he had it, and she stated she didn’t know when he wore it, just once in a while when he was teasing around and asking her how he looked in it, if he looked neat, and this kind of stuff. Other than that, she states he hasn’t worn it with her, he has put it on two or three times.
She was also informed by this officer that there was a $10,000.00 out for any information in the Salt Lake area in regards to the killings of our girls, and that everything would be kept confidential. She stated, “I will work with you, I will do anything for you, because I’m just not sure. I like him one minute, but on the other minute I keep telling myself, but I don’t want to, that he is involved. Too many things point to him and he has lied an awful lot to me.” She was asked if she would not confront him with the conversation between the two of us. She stated she would try not to, that she is a very compulsive girl, and that at times she just doesn’t understand herself.
It should also be noted on this, this interview was conducted in a room in the Seattle Police Department, in the Polygraph Room, with a two-way mirror and also with a device where Ira Beal, from Bountiful Police Department, and Detective Couch, from the Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office, sat and listened to this conversation. Detective Beal took notes as much as he could, and he will be making a report off of that. This officer took what notes he could. A lot of times while I was taking notes it seemed to distract her and upset and she wanted to know why I was writing these things down. It should be noted that the girl was extremely nervous during this interview, that she smoked exactly one full package of cigarettes. The interview lasted approximately two hours. She was also informed that I would get a hold of her the next day and talk to her again, as she had to leave to pick up her 9-year old daughter.
END OF INTERVIEW.
Supplementary Report by Detective Beal, Bountiful Police
Sept. 17, 1975
This is an interview of Elizabeth Kloepfer. She works at the University of Washington Medical Institute. She goes by the name of Liz.
Kloepfer was asked when she first became concerned about Ted and as to why she became concerned about him and thought that he might possibly be involved with some of the girls that had been slain in the Seattle area. She stated that she first became concerned because he resembled the composite drawing which had been produced in the Seattle area and in following the newspaper reports she discovered the days the girls turned up missing he was not with her on any of these days.
She stated in October a girl friend of hers whose name is unknown at this time had visited Utah. Upon returning from Utah told her about a similar incident in the Salt Lake area which involved a missing girl very closely resembling that of the ones in the Seattle area. At this time Liz contacted the Seattle Police and advised them of Ted Bundy and asked them to contact the Salt Lake Police and talk with them in regards to him.
She stated that later another girl turned up missing in the Salt Lake area, this one as she recalled approximately Christmas time. At that time she contacted her dad who lives in Ogden, requested he call Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office and inform them of her suspicions. He had told her at this time that he did not wish to do this as he had no evidence and did not wish to become involved in the situation. She stated when he informed her he would not do this she herself called Captain Hayward and spoke with him at that time.
Liz was then asked if she knew where Ted received his money for his schooling and other bills. She stated that she did not know for sure. As far as she knew just from jobs he had. This officer inquired as to whether or not his parents supplied some of the money. She stated she did not think so as they were not wealthy people and his father works as a cook at the Madigan Army Hospital and his mother works as a secretary at the hospital at Puget Sound and they live on a moderate income.
Liz was asked if she thought Ted was being truthful with her. She stated no. She was asked as to why she thought this. She stated that she knew he had lied to her in the past. She stated he has stolen items in the past such as a television and a stereo, a bicycle and possibly other items and at that time he had lied to her.
She was asked if she knew when he had purchased the vehicle, the Volkswagen, he is presently driving. She stated he had owned the car since approximately 1972. She stated the color was a light beige at that time.
She stated he purchased a white Ford pickup which he has presently in the Salt Lake area about one year ago just before he left for Salt Lake City. She was asked if she had ever gone skiing with Ted. She said she had gone skiing one time at Snow Basin, however, could not remember the date. She also drove up to Snow Bird with him last year, however, it was too crowded and they did not go skiing. She was asked when the last time was that she saw him and she stated in August of 1975. She was asked if at that time they had gone to the Park City area. She stated they had not. She did state, however, they had spent some time at Flaming Gorge at her dad’s trailer.
She was asked if he liked the outdoors and she stated he did like the outdoors very much.
Liz was asked if Ted had asked her anything about any of the girls that had been slain. She stated that he knew he was a suspect in the slaying of some of the girls in the Washington area and that he has known this for approximately 10 days to two weeks as someone has been in contact with him from the Washington area who has been contacted by the Seattle area police. She was then asked if he had said anything to her in regards to being a possible suspect in any of the girls in the Utah area. She stated he had not.
She was then asked if she knew whether Ted traveled much. She stated he was not much of a traveler. As far as she knew he did not travel very much at all. She was then asked if she was very close to him. She stated she was very close indicating that they had in the past had sexual relations.
She was then asked if over the past year he had changed and she stated no. She was then asked if she felt he sometimes had two different personalities or acted like two different people. Her response was I think he is now. She was asked why. She stated that she has of late seen a side of him which is very cold and calculated.
Liz was asked about how her father got along with him or what her father thought of him. Liz stated her father gets along well with him, however, he thinks he is just an opportunist that is taking her for a ride. When asked if she felt this way she stated ‘well, he always ate at her house’ and at that time they talked of plans for the future, which would include plans for marriage.
Liz was asked how long she had worn her hair in the style that she is presently wearing which is long, dark brown hair parted in the middle approximately shoulder blade length. She stated she has worn this for approximately the last six years as long as she has known Ted. She was asked if he liked the way she wore her hair. She stated that she had at different times stated she was going to cut it which he became somewhat upset stating he liked it that way and not to cut it. She also stated that he had dated one other girl she knew and she also had long dark hair.
Liz was then asked if there was any unusual sex hangups that she was aware of. Her first response was he has a normal sex life and then went on to elaborate that at the end of 1973 he asked her one night if he could tie her up for the sex act that he used her nylon socks to tie her with and laying her on the bed he tied her legs spread apart and then tied her arms and hands. She stated that he also developed a like for anal intercourse during this same period of time. She stated that she only allowed him to tie her up a couple of times but the last time he tied her up while they were in the act of their sexual relations that he placed his hands around her throat, choking and hurting her, however at that time she did not say anything to him in regards to this, however, she refused to be tied up any more after that. She stated he had obtained these ideas from reading a book which he had purchased by the name of “Joys of Sex.”
She stated that one thing that bothered her was that during the summer of 1974 that his sex drive dropped to near zero. She stated that one possible explanation was that he was working quite hard and was tired a lot of the time. She stated she had confronted him as to whether he was possibly having affairs with other girls to which he stated no.
Liz stated that one day as she entered his apartment she found a brown paper sack in the middle of the floor just inside his apartment door and she noticed one of the items in the sack was a woman’s bra, however, she did not go through the sack any further. When asked why, she stated that she didn’t know, maybe she was possibly embarrassed or scared to do this. She stated this was in the fall of 1973. She stated she did not ever say anything to him about it and he did not ever say anything to her.
Liz was then asked if Ted had any knives. She stated he always had knives. When asked what kind of knives she stated, well kitchen utility knives. When asked if he had any hunting knives she stated he had an oriental type knife which was in a wood sheath which he kept in the glove compartment of her car for several months. At one time she had asked him what it was and he stated it was just a knife that a friend had given him. She also stated he had a meat cleaver in his apartment that he kept with his other cooking utensils.
Liz was then asked if there were any other unusual items she knew of in his apartment that she did not know why he had. She stated that she had found some plaster of Paris which would be used for a cast possibly. She stated when she asked him why and where it came from he stated it
was something he swiped from a medical supply house he worked for near the University of Washington. She also stated he had a pair of crutches. When she confronted him with them he stated they were the landlord’s and he had left them in his apartment.
Liz stated she had received a phone call from Ted last date in the evening. She was then asked if he had mentioned anything about Salt Lake or the police in Salt Lake. She stated he had. She had confronted him in regards to his arrest and he became quite upset because of her knowing it. He stated the Police had contacted Seattle and Seattle was doing some checking on him and the police in Salt Lake were harassing him. He stated the officer that arrested him was out to get him and was just plain harassing him.
She stated he also said that the police in the Salt Lake area have over-stepped their bounds and he is not worried about the charge he was picked up on because it was an illegal search. It might also be noted when she first confronted him in regards to the arrest that he stated he had been arrested for speeding, until she indicated to him that she knew why he was arrested.
Liz then inquired as to whether all the items were together in a bag indicating the handcuffs, the ski mask, etc. She was told in the affirmative. She stated that she had confronted him in regards to the items she knew were in the bag and that he had told her he used the ski mask to keep his ears warm while he was shoveling snow as it was cold. She did not know at that time about the handcuffs or some of the other items in the bag.
Liz was then asked if she knew whether Ted wore patent leather shoes very often. She stated she never knew him to wear patent leather shoes at all. She was then asked if she had ever known Ted to wear a mustache. She stated she has known him to wear a full beard, however, never a mustache alone. She did state however he always had a fake mustache. When asked what style she described it as a brush type. She stated he has owned this ever since she has known him for approximately the last six years,and that he usually carries it with him. When asked why he had it she stated he sometimes wears it to act cool.
Liz was then asked if she knew of the rip in the back seat of Ted’s car and she stated it had been there for approximately one year. She was asked if she knew it was fixed and she stated she did not. She stated he was planning on selling his vehicle to help pay for his tuition and lawyer. She stated when he talked with her last date he also asked her to send him $700.00 to help pay for his lawyer.
She then stated she inquired of him as to why he was carrying a crowbar in his car. He stated he always carries a crowbar and in fact he stated he used it the day before he was stopped and did not state what for. She stated she asked him why he had run from the officer. She indicated he told her that he had been drinking beer and didn’t want to stop.
Liz was then asked where Ted had resided prior to his coming to the Seattle area. She stated he had been in Philadelphia for awhile approximately seven or eight years ago going to a University there.
Liz was then shown a picture of a girl friend in the Salt Lake area of Ted’s and asked if she knew her. She stated no. She then asked is she a close friend of his. She was informed that it is thought that she is.
She stated then that Ted in his conversation with her had indicated that the police in Salt Lake knew he was coming to Seattle to sell his car and he was wondering how they knew. Liz was then asked if she knew Ted had joined the Mormon Church and she stated she did. He had told her that the Missionaries had been on his back ever since he had got there and he had decided it was the right time to join.
Liz then asked if she knew how he knew the police knew he was planning on coming to Seattle to sell his car. She stated she did not and the only possibility she could think of was possibly her old bishop as he had asked her how to contact him as he wanted him there for the baptism.
Liz stated he has called her several times this past week always telling her how much he really misses her, that he needs her and wants her to marry him. She stated he has not done this in the past and this seems unusual to her.
Liz was then asked if she would classify him as a schizophrenic and she stated ‘I do now.’ She was then asked if she would classify him as being somewhat schizophrenic during the sex act and she stated no.
She was asked if she could think of anything else unusual. She stated in trying to think back and remember as near as she could recall she had received a phone call that she thought was on a Friday night as near as she could remember which was the same night that one of the girls in the Salt Lake area disappeared, possibly, that of Debra Kent. She stated it was unusual for him to call from a pay phone.
She was asked if he had ever been violent and had ever hit her. She stated he had not. The only time he had hit her they had been out drinking one night, got into an argument and she stated ‘go ahead and hit me’ and he did.
Liz was then asked if she knew if he owned a gun. She stated as far as she knew he did not. She was then asked if she knew of any unusual mental hangups that Ted might have and she stated the only thing she could think of was that he was an illegitimate child and that his mother had never told him. He had learned of it when he was about 18 years of age and he was quite embittered about this, however, she stated as far as she knew his mother did not know that he knew about this.
Liz was asked if she knew of any other things that Ted might have stolen. She stated one time a police officer came to her house stating that someone had pawned a stolen camera using her address. She stated it was described as a guy who at that time was with a blonde girl and she is now wondering if Ted might have possibly been the one who pawned it.
Liz was then asked if she had any doubts in her mind in regards to Ted’s activities. Stated she has a lot of doubts and she is definitely not sure and she at this time could in no way marry Ted and at this time any thoughts of marriage are out.
END OF INTERVIEW THIS DATE.
Detective Ira Beal’s notes from the first Kloepfer interview. Courtesy Bountiful Police Dept.
Interview with Elizabeth Kloepfer by Detective Jerry Thompson
Sept. 18, 1975
Q: Okay. His habits, would you say if he’s out with a group or he’s with somebody, is he a loner or is he one to get, you know, gets in, mixes in with the crowd, or, or what would you say?
A: He mixes in, he doesn’t have a lot of close friends.
Q: He doesn’t have a lot of close friends?
A: No, well he didn’t up here cause we were together most of the time …
Q: But if he was out with a group, he would, he would get along with them or mix in with them for that time? Is he quite athletic?
Q: Any particular sports?
A: Well he plays tennis … handball, plays football.
Q: And he plays handball?
Q: Has he ever played racquet ball?
A: Not that I know of …
Q: Since he moved, now he moved from here in September of 1974, right? What contact have you had with him, since that time, just telephone contact?
A: Yeah, we’ve talked on the phone a lot … and he came back up here right after the last quarter. I went down there…
Q: Last Christmas?
A: Yeah. He came up in January… he came up at the end of June.
Q: You were down there in August and December?
A: Um hm.
Q: August of ’75 and December of ’74.
A: Uh huh.
Q: Has he ever mentioned, since he was down there during that time, what he was doing, telling you with his time what he was doing, just studying, and what was-
Q: Did he ever make any comments about any friends he had made?
Q: And what he had done in Salt Lake?
A: Yeah, he said something I wanted to talk to you about, he was smoking a lot of dope.
Q: He was smoking pot quite a bit?
A: Yeah, these guys that live across the hall … and he was smoking it…
Q: Did he ever mention any girlfriends or if he had any or did you ever ask him?
A: Yeah, I wanted to ask him, that’s another thing, is that, was that picture you showed me yesterday, is that girl’s name Gloria Ann?
Q: Is her name what?
A: Gloria Ann.
Q : No it isn’t.
A: Okay, well he had a project with this law student, girl, her name was Gloria Ann.
Q: Gloria Ann, she’s from Salt Lake?
A: Um hum. He made a lotta friends, a lotta friends that were girls…
Q: Has he ever made a comment to you about the missing girls in the Washington area, has he ever talked about this at all? You said that he thought he was being questioned or a suspect in regards to this in Seattle? Has he ever made any comments?
A: Well, since he’s been being investigated?
Q: Yeah. Or before.
A: Well before, when he came up here in June, and he came back and he said that he’s discovered it’s not a good thing to be named Ted in Seattle, and that’s all, first we ever talked about it … he had talked about that quite a bit. The only–
Q: Did he, go ahead, I’m sorry.
A: The only time that he’s mentioned it since he’s been arrested is that, um, when I told him that I knew he’d been arrested he called, the reason I knew was because his landlady told me, and he called her to see what Kathy had asked the landlady, and she told him… he was a suspect, and then he mentioned at that time, and we didn’t talk about it, speechless, and then he had a friend of his who works, well she writes crime stories, she contacted Kathy to find out what was going on, and he mentioned that it was routine, Ann had told me that it was a routine investigation.
Q: Do you know who this friend is that writes these crime stories?
A: Yeah, her name is Ann Rule.
Q: It’s what?
A: Ann Rule.
A: Um hm.
Q: Do you know, is she from Salt Lake?
A: No, she’s from here. They had worked together at the Crisis Center up here.
Q: What is she, a writer for just her own or a paper or works for somebody?
A: No, she writes for just crime magazines, yeah… she’s written a whole book on the missing girls.
Q: That she has written a book on this, you don’t know if she has or you don’t know what the
book is or anything?
Q: Is she a pretty good friend of his?
Q: He doesn’t have the book, do you know? Has he ever said he’s had it or seen the book?
Q: Has he ever made any kind of comments about what the police have in regards to these investigations, that they don’t have anything, or anything at all about how they, any details on where any of them have been killed and how they’ve been killed or anything like this?
Q: He’s never said anything about that. His Volkswagen, have you ever known it to be any other color than what it is?
Q: How about, has he ever mentioned, you told me the other day his comments about he liked you with your hair long and girls with long hair. Has he ever mentioned anything particular about any girls he does not like or any particular ones that he commented about, something unusual or is there a certain type he doesn’t like, or anyone that bothers him?
Q: He’s never mentioned anything like that. Okay now they told me there was a friend of yours that, I can’t remember whether she went to Salt Lake and she heard about the girl we had missing down there. Was she from Salt Lake or was she up here and down to Salt Lake and she heard about the girl we had missing down there? Was she from Salt Lake or was she up here and down to Salt Lake visiting?
A: She’s from up here and she was–
Q: She was down there visiting. Is she up here now?
Q: And she went down to Salt Lake and heard about this stuff?
A: Um hum.
Q: Have you talked to her much about him?
Q: What does she think?
A: Oh, she doesn’t know, I mean–
Q: Does she have a doubt?
Q: Has she known Ted very long?
A: No, we’ve both known him for… But it’s really good that I have her because I’ve forgotten a lot of things…
Q: Does she work up here somewhere?
Q: Now you stated he had a boat or a raft or something and he had in Salt Lake. Can you describe that to me?
A: Yes, it’s a four-man rubber raft.
Q: Oh, it’s a rubber raft.
Q: Has he ever mentioned the name or the town of Bountiful, Utah?
Q: Okay, going back to that mustache you said he had, what color was that, do you recall?
Q: It was brown?
A: Um hm.
Q: Was it, I know you said the other day it looked more like a brush or something, do you know, was it one that comes to the end of the lips or a little one inside?
A: It just ended squared off-
Q: At the lips, the end of the lips?
A: Yeah, it didn’t come down like–
Q: It didn’t droop down but it came to the–
A: Yeah, it was like straight, like a straight mustache.
Q: Now, going back to that sack of clothes you told me that you thought was clothes, that there was a bra on the top, do you have an idea when this was, ’73, ’74, or?
A: Yeah, it was the Fall of ’73.
Q: It was ’73? That was before the girls in Seattle came up missing? Okay. Has he ever been in California?
Q: Do you know when?
A: Yeah, he was there in ’73, he went to San Francisco…
Q: Do you know how long he lived down there or just vacation?
A: Oh no, it was just a few days.
Q: He was just down there a few days. Any other time you know that he was down there?
A: Not since I’ve known him, … the summer before I met him.
Q: That was in the summer of ’73, do you think?
Q: That he was in San Francisco?
A: Oh, yeah, no, I think it was in the spring.
Q: Spring of ’73? And you met him when, 6 years ago, didn’t you say?
Q: He was down there in ’73?
A: Um hum.
Q: A week or two or a day?
A: No, just about four days.
Q: Okay. What did you want to ask me?
A: Um, what you write everything down for…
Q: Well that’s, like I say, my memory isn’t the greatest in town either.
A: Okay. Oh, this is the most important thing, my father used to, um, in June, before he came up here, he told me in great detail about that he’d heard on the news, just one time only, about some rapes on First Avenue, which he lives on, and he says they were all college girls, and uh, he said something like ‘the guy had a beard, so that lets me out,’ and he says that he thought he had an idea who might have done it… retarded people around the corner from him, and one of the guys that was a (?), he had heard on the news.
Q: He called you and told you about this?
Q: In June of this year?
A: Yes. So he told me that, I can’t remember, if he came up or asked me to come up, he says that he called a detective down there, a woman, who was handling the case, and she contacted him… about this possible suspect. In June he started growing a beard and when he was up here he said that this guy he thought was a possible suspect had shaved his head, and he said, ‘Doesn’t that seem really odd to you that he would do that right after the news had come out,’ and I wanted to say no…
Q: And he was growing a beard in June?
A: Um hm.
Q: Last year?
A: Of this year.
Q: Of this year, rather.
A: Um hm … suspicious of this case of rapes?
Q: Now that would have been handled by the Salt Lake City Police, and they did have some rapes in the Avenues last summer, or this summer, I don’t know the month and I don’t have any details in regards to the suspect, whether he had a beard, I’ll have to check that out. There is a woman detective down there that works rapes. Her name is Pat, and that I don’t know, but yes they did have what they called an “Avenue Rapist.”
Q: Okay, but I don’t have the details on the thing. What else did you want to ask me, Liz?
A: Oh, um, he asked me yesterday if I thought there was two separate Teds, and I do, like, I couldn’t put my finger on it until I was talking to Mary Lynn about it, but like he was insanely jealous of me.
Q: Very jealous?
A: Yeah, and it, like um, he went so far as to follow me when I went out sometimes, you know, and I thought, I thought that was odd, and the other thing is that he used to take naps in the day, and so therefore he was wide awake at night and he used to go out walking around a lot late at night. A couple of times when I was walking home from meetings he snuck up on me and scared the hell outta me … He was out a lot late at night and it bothered me.
Q: Were the girls up here in the Seattle area publicized to the point that publicity gave the dates when they turned up missing?
A: Um hm.
Q: Okay, and you being familiar with the dates, you told me the other day that those particular dates, the ones you could remember, he wasn’t with you. Do you remember anything about those particular dates, the next day if he got a hold of you, his comments, any way he acted unusual, or did he make any comment about it?
A: No. I’m really, I, the only dates that I know anything about is the July 14th one, just because by that time I was just a little bit suspicious, and I reconstructed what had happened, but I, I can’t find anything, and I’ve really looked hard, you know, to give me any memories about the other dates.
Q: July 14th when you remember well.
Q: What can you tell me about him on that?
A: On that day?
Q: Um hm.
A: He came over in the morning and I was just getting ready to go to church.
Q: That was a Sunday?
A: Yes, and it was a sunny day. We had an argument the night before because I wanted to do something and he didn’t, um, well anyway so he came over early in the morning and I said well I’m going to church and then I’m gonna go lay out in the sun. So he asked me where I was going, I thought maybe he’d meet me there, but he didn’t, and I didn’t, we quarreled again that morning, and I was really mad at him so I was really surprised when I got home he called me about oh six and said let’s go eat, and I was surprised at this, I thought he was mad at me, and so we went out and ate that night.
Q: At six o’clock?
Q: Was there anything unusual about him that night?
A: Well, he looked really wiped out, he was getting a bad cold, which really turned into a whopper, but I asked him what he had done and he said he’d laid around and rested, but he looked just so tired, and uh, he told me his (?) were gone.
Q: Okay, let me ask you another personal question, in regards to his sex life, was he a type of an individual that, from sex that he could go one right after the other continue, or was he an individual that wasn’t, what I’m trying to say, unusual for the fact that a man that if he had intercourse with a girl that he could have one right after the other, or would he be more less the normal type, did he have an extra strong situation in that line?
A: Its hard to tell, when we first met each other, I mean–
Q: Right, no, I realize that.
A: Yeah right, well after 6 years, you know, he was normal.
Q: Okay. Maybe I shouldn’t do this I hope I got your confidence enough, that you, like I told you yesterday, that you won’t talk to him, and perhaps that we can get the doubt out of your mind and maybe a doubt out of ours both, one way or the other. Maybe this will help you. I have a picture here of all the items that we took from his car, and one particular item here you don’t know about, and I wanted to ask you something about it. But I will let you look at them first.
A: What’s all this stuff?
Q: Okay now I can tell you. This stuff here is bit of sheets torn in about one or two inch strips, and there are some, that’s what basically all that stuff is, and then this is, there is cord and rope in small sections. It’s the handcuffs and it’s the punch, the gloves, the ski mask, this is a pair of women’s nylon pantyhose with eye holes and a mouth cut out. This is, like a canvas gym bag they were all in. This is a bag of those garbage can liner bags, 30 gallon garbage can liners. This is a flashlight and that’s the crowbar. Have you ever seen that crowbar before?
Q: Have you ever seen any of that stuff before?
A: Yes, I’ve seen the gloves and I’ve seen the gym bag.
Q: Have you ever seen what’s in that gym bag?
A: No, it was usually empty, he has another one that he carries his, you know, athletics stuff in.
Q: Okay, now this might enlighten you to why we suspect something wrong, very highly unusual, would you say, that any man would have these things, other than for what reason, an armed robber maybe? Very much, armed robberies are handled daily with these and these. Of course we didn’t come up with any gun or anything else. And the handcuffs, the rope bindings, what would you surmise they might be in a person’s possession for? To tie somebody up, I would assume. So, I can’t answer that, but those are the things that was in his car, and those are the things that he was arrested for, and the statute we use is what we call Burglar Tools, at 3:00 o’clock in the morning, on the west side of Salt Lake, and his explanation was, “I was just driving around, couldn’t sleep.” I cannot tell you what he was doing. I have no idea. But that’s basically one of my concerns. I don’t buy his explanation for them. Like I say, even the nylon pantyhose he had an explanation, that he put them on to keep his ears and his face warm when he was skiing, and I says you don’t ski in August. “But I just still had them in my car.” So I, that’s my concern.
A: What about the ice pick?
Q: I can’t answer that either.
A: What’d he say?
Q: It was just a house tool, just a thing that he had in his car. But I can’t answer that either, I don’t know why or what the, but you have never seen the ice pick or any of these other items?
A: Uh uh. I told Kathy, and I double checked, when he used to drive my car, I noticed that the crowbar, I mean the jack hammer, was taped with adhesive tape, and it still is to this day.
Q: Where’s your car?
A: In the parking lot.
Q: Far from here?
A: It’s not walking distance.
Q: You say it’s not in walking distance?
A: No, it is, yeah.
Q: Long ways?
Q: Okay. And that’s a Volkswagen lug wrench.
A: (Can’t hear answer)
Q: Okay. We’d like to look at it before we leave, some way or another.
Q: But it’s taped, where is it taped?
A: I don’t know, one end.
Q: Okay, but you noticed it, that since he drove your car and that that it was taped?
A: Yeah, no that was, I mean its been taped for years.
Q: (Detective Beal) Does it look similar to this to where it has the part that you undo the lugs with and it just comes up and curves right to there?
A: I don’t remember, It seems to me it’s straight, not curved on the end. We can go look at it. I can, I don’t know, I remember one time-
Q: (Detective Thompson) Did you ever confront him about it?
A: Yeah I asked him about it and he says it, well this is a long time ago we were having student riots up here, and he said you never know when you can get caught in the middle of one.
Q: Okay now where did he keep it?
A: In the trunk of my car.
Q: Your trunk, but you never noticed it when he had it it was in the front or seat or anything?
A: I think it was in the front of the car at one time. Then there was another, a tire iron, I mean a, I don’t know what it was, but he used to sleep in front of my house, and it was sitting there, this is a long time ago but its just weird, and he left my house late at night and then he came back and I opened the door to see what he was doing and he came back to get that, and he looked really sick, you know, like he was hiding something, and I says what have you got in your pocket, and he wouldn’t show me and I reached in and grabbed it and it was pair of surgical gloves. Weird.
Q: He had them in his pocket? What did he say he was doing with them?
A: I think he turned around and left, I can’t–
Q: And this was in the middle of the night?
A: Yeah, it was late at night. It seems incredible as I say all this that I didn’t, you know, say ‘you’re weird, go away.’
Q: Well no, I realize these things you know, of course a lot of things you don’t have explanation for, you know, and you don’t think and with someone else you think, well what the hell, you know, something, you don’t think of them until later, and that’s why, like I say, as things come up just like myself, I think of things different, and you probably will too, and I hope that I can still communicate with you. Like I say, if you think of anything, or you want to ask me any questions, and you think of anything else that may be of interest, if you’ll call me, and call me collect, now you have that card.
A: Um hm.
Q: And so I can get it that way. Or I have, I will give you an address. If you want to write anything, you would like to write to me there at the Sheriff’s Office, I would appreciate it, and like I told you before, there’s no way I’m going to tell Ted that I communicated. If you do, that’s up to you. I don’t think it would be a good idea, but I can’t tell you what to do.
A: Yeah, I know that.
Q: But I hope you don’t communicate with the man, because there is a doubt in your mind, and frankly you’ve put a good doubt in my mind, and I, he is one of ten thousand suspects that we have worked on, and a lot of them have looked good and a lot of them have went down the drain. Here again, but you have put a strong doubt in my mind, and as an investigator I won’t quit until I’m convinced that I’m wrong or I come up with the right answer, one way or the other, the same as we do on others, when we can definitely eliminate an individual, then we just eliminate him and keep the file, but until I can do that, I won’t quit.
A: You keep all the files?
Q: Yes we do.
Q: Well, I can’t say how long. At the time, which I hope we find the individual, then the ones that didn’t have nothing to do with it, I’m sure we’re going to do away with, because of the office space, but until that time, I’m sure we’ll hang onto them for some time.
A: Yeah, I have wondered, I read in the paper long ago that there was a girl in Salt Lake that had gotten away, that she’d been abducted and the guy tried to handcuff her to him … and I wondered if you had shown his picture to her.
Q: You put me on a spot, don’t you. I can’t tell you Liz.
A: Oh God.
Q: I know what you’re going to say.
A: The next thing you ask me-
Q: You’re going to tell me ‘I can’t tell you, Jerry, I can’t tell you.’ I’ll tell you this much, I will let you know, but I can’t tell you right now. I will communicate with you and let you know at a later date, but I cannot tell you and not only can I not tell you, I can’t tell anyone, even fellow officers other than my partner on the case, just what all we’re doing and what we have, because we can’t take a chance in such a case, any kind of a leak or anything else or losing a piece of evidence publicity wise or anything else, so that’s, not that I don’t want to tell you and not that I don’t want to do this or that, but I just can’t. And I hope you can understand my position in that, but I promise you I, like I say, I hope to keep communicating with you and I will let you know, but I cannot tell you right now. Has he ever mentioned anything about that individual to you?
Q: Now you read this in the paper?
Q: Did it mention what we- (end of tape)
END OF INTERVIEW.
Detective Ira Beal’s notes from the second Kloepfer interview. Courtesy Bountiful Police Dept.
Supplementary Report by Detective Beal
Sept. 18, 1975
This is a re-interview of Elizabeth Kloepfer, known as Liz. This took place at the University of Washington Hospital at 1100 Hours 9/18/75.
Interviewers were: Reporting officer and Detective Jerry Thompson, Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office.
Liz was asked as to her knowledge of the attitude towards police officers in general and she said Ted has a very good attitude and is usually praising police departments. Liz then asked Ted’s habits towards mixing with groups and she stated he mixes quite well, however, he does not have a lot of close male friends.
She was asked what type of sports he participated in and she stated tennis and hand ball. She stated she did not know of any other particular ones than this.
Liz was asked what contact she has had since September of 1974 with Ted. She stated she has talked with him several times by telephone and in December of 1974 at Christmastime she came to Salt Lake. In January of 1975 he visited her in Seattle between quarters and in August of 1975 she again visited him in Salt Lake City. She stated while she was visiting with him in December in Salt Lake she learned Ted was smoking a lot of pot with his roommate or an acquaintance that lived across the hall from him by the name of Scott. She stated this was always a problem between them after she learned it and they argued quite considerably about him using marijuana and the effects it could possibly have on him.
Liz then referred back to the picture which she was shown in the last interview and asked if that girl’s name was Gloria Ann or Glory Ann. She was told no it was not. She stated that he had developed a friendship with a girl by the name of Gloria Ann who is a law student at the University of Utah as they worked together on several projects for class.
Liz was then asked if Ted had ever mentioned to her anything in regards to the missing girls, especially in the Washington area or the Salt Lake area. She stated he has talked to her about the girls in the Washington area, however, he has not talked to her very much. He stated since the time he was arrested in Salt Lake he has talked to his ex landlord in the Seattle area who has been contacted by the Seattle King County Sheriff’s Office in regards to a background check on Ted and that his landlord had told him he is being investigated in the possible disappearance of the girls. He stated he had discovered it is not a good thing to be named Ted in the Seattle area.
She stated he had contacted a friend of his by the name of Ann Rule who lives in Seattle and who writes crime stories for magazines and that Ann contacted King County to see what was going on and they told her it was strictly a routine investigation. She stated Ann recontacted Ted and informed him of such. She was asked if Ted had mentioned anything to her about the type of evidence the police had in regards to the disappearances and slayings of the girls and she stated he had not.
Liz was then asked if she had ever known Ted’s car to be any other color than the beige color which it presently is. She stated she has not that it was beige when he got it.
Liz was then asked if Ted has ever mentioned any girls or types of girls which he does not like or any types particularly that he likes and she stated he has not.
Liz was then asked what her girlfriend’s name was to which she had referred to previously that she had discussed this situation with. She gave the name as Mary Lynn Chino. When Liz was asked if her girl friend Mary Lynn had any doubts toward Ted she stated Mary Lynn definitely has some doubts.
Liz was then asked again in reference to a raft which she stated Ted had. She stated he has a four man yellow rubber raft which she had given to him as a graduation present when he graduated from the University of Washington.
Liz was then asked if Ted had ever mentioned being to Bountiful or knowing anyone the Bountiful area and she stated he has not.
Liz was then questioned again in regards to the mustache. She stated it was a brown mustache. It was straight and quite sparse brush type and just came to the corner of the lips and did not droop at all.
In reference back to the night of 9/16/75 when Liz had talked with Ted she stated that he had lied to her about being arrested. But when she told him she knew that he had been arrested he stated he had been arrested for speeding. She then informed him that she knew why he had been arrested and he became quite upset at her knowing. He then stated that after they had stopped him they had gone through his car looking for anything and everything to bust him on and he was surprised they had not taken the fire extinguisher out of his car and try to charge him with arson also. At the time Liz talked to him she did not know anything about the handcuffs and therefore did not ask him anything about it.
Also, she stated that her car had been stolen for a few days in the summer of 1973 and was gone for two or three days and when the car was returned the oriental type knife in the wood sheath was missing at that time. She stated that Ted did drive her car occasionally.
Liz was then asked if Ted had ever been to California. She stated Ted had been to the San Francisco area in the spring of 1973 for a few days on business. She did not know anything more about his visit there.
Liz then stated one thing that struck her funny that she had talked with Ted in June and he was talking about hearing one report on the radio in regards to several rapes which had occurred on 1st Avenue in Salt Lake which is near the area he lives. The description of the guy involved was a guy with a beard and he stated to her ‘I guess that lets me out.’ He stated that he thought a possible suspect was an individual that lives in a house for mentally retarded people around the corner from him which would be on F Street and that right after this description came out this individual shaved his beard and head. He stated, ‘isn’t that kind of funny.’ Liz stated that she told him not any funnier than a guy that is growing a beard. She stated Ted grew a beard in June of 1975.
Liz then referred to a question that had been asked in an earlier interview in regards to two separate Teds or schizophrenic personality. She stated that in thinking back Ted is very jealous of her. He follows her when she goes to various places or meetings to see who she is with or what she is doing. She stated he takes naps and sleeps a lot during the day and is out a lot late at night. She stated he used to sneak up on her when she was walking alone at night when she had no idea he was around and suddenly jump out of the bushes and grab her scaring the hell out of her. She stated that this really made her angry.
Liz referred back to the girls which were missing from the Seattle area stating that the only one she could really pinpoint was one on July 14, 1974 which turned up missing shortly after she started becoming suspicious of Ted. She stated on Saturday night they had been out and had argued. On Sunday morning she was starting to get ready for church and that Ted came over which surprised her due to the fact she thought he was mad at her. She stated he asked her where she was going to which she told him to church and then another place she was going and she thought he might meet her there, however, he did not. She stated approximately 6:00 PM that day he came over and asked her to go out to dinner with him. She stated at that time she had asked him where he had been as he looked very beat. He told her just laying around.
Liz was then asked as to her opinion of Ted’s sexual activities, as to whether he was a very virile man and was able to have repeated intercourse with only a few minutes in between. She stated when they first met he was able to perform very well, however, after six years of knowing him she stated she feels he is just a normal man.
Liz was then shown a picture of the items which were confiscated from Ted’s vehicle at the time of his arrest. She was asked if she had ever seen the crowbar before and she stated she had not and had no idea of his having it. She stated the only thing she has ever seen before is the gloves and the bag and the rest is foreign to her. Liz stated that the items did look very suspicious and could cause some concern.
She then stated there was another item which she could think of that might be somewhat suspicious. She stated when Ted used to drive her car around she noticed he had taken her handle for her jack and had taped the one end of it. This being the end that curves slightly with adhesive tape and she had found this inside of her car a few times and not just in the trunk area. She stated she had asked him as to why he had taped the handle and this occurred during the time there were student riots at the University and he stated ‘with the riots you never know when you might need it.’
She stated another incident that one night he was at her house, that he left, then came back shortly after. He returned to the porch and took something from an urn on the porch. She opened the door and observed the action but was unsure what it was and when she asked him what it was he looked sick and tried to hide it from her. She stated she grabbed it from him, discovering it was a pair of surgical gloves. She asked him what they were for and he just turned and left. This she said was one night late at night.
Liz then referred back to December and she had read or heard from somewhere that one of the individuals in the Salt Lake area was supposedly wearing a trench coat and when she flew into Salt Lake and Ted met her at the airport that he was wearing his trench coat telling her how much he really liked it and enjoyed it. She stated she was quite struck when she saw him in the trench coat due to the fact that she had heard or read this previous to her coming down.
Liz then stated after Ted learned that the police had talked to his landlord about him he called her and told her that if the police should try to contact her and talk to her that she was not to talk to them without first obtaining a lawyer. She stated she asked him what do I need a lawyer for I haven’ t done anything wrong. She stated he told her that he just didn’t want her to talk to the police without having an attorney present.
Liz was then asked if Ted was a frequent visitor of the State Park where the girls disappeared in the Seattle area. She stated he was not. The only time she had ever known him to be there was approximately one week prior to the disappearance of the girls from the State Park area. She stated at that time he had went there alone.
Liz then stated after having talked about the items which have been discussed in the interviews both yesterday and today her doubts are greatly increasing towards Ted and she wishes she could know for sure and at this time she has considerable doubts. She is of the opinion that there is a great possibility that Ted might possibly be involved in this.